CART Media Conference
T.E. McHALE: Good afternoon to everybody. Welcome to the CART media teleconference. We're pleased that you all could join us. We'd like to extend a special welcome to our guests this afternoon, driver Dario Franchitti and team owner Carl Hogan of Hogan Racing LLC. We put this together on kind of short notice and we want to say, gentlemen, thank you very much for taking the time to join us today.
CARL HOGAN: I'd like to say it's Dario Franchitti (laughter).
T.E. McHALE: With that, we'll continue. Dario Franchitti is a native Scot and rookie driver in the 1997 PPG CART World Series. He currently stands second to Patrick Carpentier in the Rookie-of-the-Year race with five points and has posted a season best finish of ninth place at the April 6th Sunbelt Indy Carnival, Australia. He heads into the July 13th Medic Drug Grand Prix of Cleveland with a streak of four consecutive top eight qualifying efforts including season best back-to-back starts of fifth at both the ITT Automotive Detroit Grand Prix and last weekend's Budweiser G.I. Joe's 200, presented by Texaco Havoline. Dario led 31 laps of the inaugural Motorola 300 at Gateway International Raceway before being victimized by transmission problems just 26 laps from the checkered flag. Dario later led four laps at the ITT Automotive Detroit Grand Prix to become the only rookie to date to leave laps at two separate events. Carl Hogan is in his sixth year as team owner with championship auto racing teams. In 1992, his first season as a car owner, teamed with Bobby Rahal to win the PPG CART World Series Championship. Bobby Rahal finished third in 1995 and fourth in 1993 under the Rahal-Hogan banner. In their four years together, Rahal had four victories, 20 podium finishes, and 44 Top 10 efforts. The Medic Drug Grand Prix of Cleveland, round ten of the PPG CART World Series, will be televised live by ABC on Sunday, July 13th, at 2 p.m., eastern daylight time. With that, we will open it up for questions.
Q. Good afternoon to Carl, Dario, and everyone else. Congratulations on your strong showing, in particular in the last three last few races, although at the same time I'm sure you're all disappointed at ultimately the kind of lack of results. I wonder if specifically to Dario, now that you've finally been running on a street course and now a road circuit, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your impressions of racing on road circuits which are, of course, what your background is in, your impressions of CART racing on these road courses.
DARIO FRANCHITTI: First of all, to drive on the road circuit is obviously a lot of fun with a car, so much grip and horsepower. But to actually race on them, it's something else again. A lot of the single seated championships I did before, wasn't any overtaking because you couldn't get close. In the CART series this year, the races have been really, really competitive. There's been a lot of overtaking, opportunity to race against the people rather than just circulate and wait for the pit stops to shake things up. We've been racing. It's really good. Good variety of circuits in America to race on as well. Different kind of road courses, street courses, so that's pretty good.
CARL HOGAN: I think it's important to know that even though Dario had never before raced on ovals, the race in St. Louis, the Motorola 300, he had the fastest lap of the race. I think it's also important to note that at Detroit, which is a road course/street course combination, he also had the fastest lap by over a second over the second car. I'm very proud of Dario's performance on that, not only on the road course, but also the oval. I think it really is starting to show his versatility.
Q. Dario, again, I wondered, your first time actually in an Indy car on a road course was at Mid Ohio in the test between Detroit and Portland.
DARIO FRANCHITTI: The first time was Homestead. First sort of real road course was Mid Ohio.
Q. That was obviously some quick adaptations on your part. Again, I wondered if you might talk a little bit about how the team has helped you come to grips, not only with ovals, but the road courses and the whole Indy car program?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I think the main thing to remember when we talk about the team is we came together very, very late, the whole operation. From day one, we were up to speed incredibly quickly. It's easy for maybe two guys to work together, but for 20 guys to work together is a little more difficult. Managing it really well. I think the main things, basically we're getting good setups on the car. There's no problems with any reliability, mechanical. As far as the car, second to none. Again, we've got the best package with Mercedes Reynard Firestone. That's also a big plus. Again, it helps having Carl there not put any pressure on me. He's a good boss to work for because he's not out there giving me lots and lots of pressure. He sort of lets me get on with it. He knows I'm trying my best. It's not necessary for him to put any additional pressure on me.
Q. You sort of led into it, Dario, when you talked about the pressure. I wasn't at the last race, but I watched it on TV. I saw Carl talking about the accident, then I saw you and Carl sort of looked like you were perhaps exchanging words, then you embraced. What was going on there?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I guess it must have looked like we were shouting at each other from outside. I was telling Carl, "I don't believe our luck. We're going to get our breaks." He was, "I can't believe we're working so hard, haven't gotten any luck." We were frustrated, not with each other or anything, just with the situation. We were commiserating with each other. That's what it was all about. We've done that a couple times this year. I want to stop that. I want to start celebrating.
Q. Could you talk a little bit about that accident? Carl could you talk about what you saw happened and what your feelings were?
CARL HOGAN: My feel is just to go ahead with what Dario said, neither one of us were upset with each other. I think it was just a total frustration. I was just upset with everything happening, which went back to the pit stop actually, Dario getting out and working hard, then having the accident. I was just really upset with the whole circumstance, really apologizing to Dario that I don't know how he puts up with it. That was basically my side of it. His side of it was basically the same, that we keep working hard and trying, and we're not getting results. When we're all through, why, we said, "The heck with it, let's get on with life." That was it really. As far as the accident is concerned, I just couldn't believe it happened because I saw on the monitor, what I had seen was Dario had already taken the pass, he was maybe like a half car length in front, what I saw. They were out of the turn. It just seemed that he was moved over and just moved right off the course. I just couldn't believe that was happening. Dario, maybe you'd like to comment on that a little bit?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I mean, for me the whole situation started on the green. It was the first corner basically after a caution period. As soon as the green came out, I passed on the outside, then I passed Al on the inside halfway up the straight. I was puzzled because he seemed to be going very, very slowly for a restart. I passed him. Then the guys in front kind of packed up. We went through in single file. As I turned left, Al suddenly ducked inside. I gave him room. The next corner, just coming across, kept coming, then the cars got locked up. As soon as the two cars got locked up, nothing either of us could do. Was put in that position by Al not seeing me or trying to squeeze me out.
Q. Did you talk to Al about it?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: Al came up to me after the race and said, "When the two cars were look locked together, there was nothing I could do." Really I just kind of said, "Yeah, whatever," because I didn't really feel like talking to him about it at the time. There was nothing to be gained by it.
Q. Report card at the moment for yourself, what grade would you give yourself? How much optimism do you have for the remainder of the season?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: My report card at the moment, grade yourself, you always feel like you want somebody else do that.
Q. I'll let Carl do that in a minute.
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I would say I'm very happy with my performances on the street courses, Portland at the weekend there, also St. Louis. A couple of the circuits I wasn't very happy with it. Whether that was a result of us not getting the car sorted out correctly, which I have to take some responsibility for as well. It's for me interpret the way the car is handling as well. I would say it's been a very mixed season so far. Difficult to grade it. I look forward to the rest of the season with tremendous optimism because we've got a terrific outfit here. We're working hard. Been running right at the front. The results haven't been coming, but we've been the ones up there.
Q. Has the really top-notch qualifying you've been putting in lately, has that perhaps added to the frustration, knowing what the car can achieve, knowing what you can achieve, seeing the places that are coming out on race day?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: That's fairly frustrating because we know what we can do, what I can do, what the team can do. It's frustrating for myself, Carl, the guys. It's going to come right for us. Going to shock a few people.
Q. What are your thoughts, Carl?
CARL HOGAN: Well, you know, I think you have to take a situation as to what the beginning of the season was, you know, where we were with Dario's experience and lack of experience with the ovals and everything. I'll tell you the truth, I'm absolutely amazed. There's not a grade high enough that I could give Dario at this point. You know, he's come along and he's been patient. There was a situation and a time when we had to learn a little bit about the car. I'd never run a Reynard before. I'd never run Firestone tires before. Dario had never been in this type of a car before. I think there was a learning process. There was a learning process between our engineers, mechanics and everything. You know, I think the last few races, it's come together as far as practice and qualifying. I think Dario's just doing an outstanding job. I think the biggest frustration I have is not entirely even with the racing, it's just that I haven't been able to deliver a victory to Dario like I think he deserves at this point. Very truthfully, I didn't realize I would maybe be in a position to feel that way this season, much less halfway through the season. Progress has come so fast that I just want to make sure that we do the job for Dario.
Q. Finally, Carl, if you could single out venues still to come that you think people should be looking out for, saying you feel the chance is going to come there? Are there any that particularly suit the car as you see it now?
CARL HOGAN: Well, I think there's quite a few venues that will look good. I mean, I think the next race at Cleveland is always sort of a question mark because it's on an open air field and everything. To set up the car properly there is sometimes a little tricky. I think it's very sensitive to damper changes. I think the following race at Toronto, I've always had good cars there. I would say that I have very, very high expectations for that as far as the next two immediate races are concerned.
Q. I was watching the race on TV. When Dario was being interviewed, my eye caught you in the background just kind of leaning up against the truck. I said, "Boy, looks like he's saying to himself, What in the hell am I doing here?" Has that point hit you at all this year?
CARL HOGAN: Well, it's not so much "What I'm doing here," but, "Why is this all happening to me," I think is a little better way to put it. I decided at the end of the year that we would put every effort we could into it, do everything we could to put on a first class show. All of that I think has come along quite rapidly. I'm very pleased with that. But then these last few races, the frustration has been unbelievable. I guess it's not, "What am I doing here," but, "How can I put up with it" is a better way to put it.
Q. Dario, a question for you. With the frustration that both you and Carl have been talking about, I'm wondering, do you have to kind of control that frustration so that you don't walk over that fine line and put the car somewhere that you don't want to because you think, "This might be by time"?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: No. I think after the good weekend we had in Detroit, I went to Portland with a clean slate, see what happens here. The same thing is going to happen when we go to Cleveland. Just looking at a new race. I'm going to do the best job I can. The frustration is not something -- I think if you're back and slow, frustration is going to creep in. If you're up in front, quick, there's not a problem with that.
Q. Carl, this may be a continuation of a question. During the TV interview, you disgustedly said, "I'm getting tired of this." Did that refer to something on your team or to something in the series?
CARL HOGAN: It actually didn't refer to either one of those. It just referred to all the circumstances that have happened, some of which are obviously and some of which you can't believe. I guess it was just, you know, "I'm tired of all these variables coming up and jumping at us." The frustrations, as an example, Dario was second all weekend. The last lap of qualifying, three people jumped in front of him. Ten minutes later it rained. I mean, those are things when they start adding up, they sort of get to you once in a while. Sometimes, you know, I get a little frustrated that we're not doing a little better job for Dario on some of the things. I think part of that is being a new team. I thought we were coming along. I think we are. But we've just got to gel pretty quickly here on some little things. I guess it was just a whole conglomerate of things that made me make that statement. To tell you the truth, I'm still sick of it (laughter).
Q. How important is it for you to get a major sponsor on the car and how much easier is it? Would that take some of the frustration away?
CARL HOGAN: From my standpoint, it would take a lot of frustrations away. We got into this so late. I made up my mind that the first thing I had to do was to try to build a real good race team and put something on the track that was salabe. Now that we've done, that the problem is we're sort of halfway through this year, which is sort of shot. It's a very expensive project. Now we're working for next year. If we could soon nail down a major sponsor, it would just make life a lot easier for everybody.
Q. Carl, first of all, how did you find Dario? How did you two get hooked up? Second, can we talk some about the sponsorship situation, particularly with the tobacco settlement, whether that reduces the opportunities for finding sponsor dollars right now.
CARL HOGAN: The first thing, as far as finding Dario, Roger Penske and I were partners last year. We had a very good relationship, still have an excellent relationship. We really didn't determine until late in the year that it would be best if we went separate ways for various reasons, all positive. It wasn't until the end of December that that determination was really made. Actually, one of the things that happened real quick, which was sort of an accident, was Rick Gordon called me from Reynard and said that, "Carl, if you are racing next year, we can get you race cars in an appropriate time." I was shocked with that because it was so late. The minute that that happened, I then called Germany, Stuttgart, to Mercedes and expressed my desire to race and work with them. It was out of that conversation with Mercedes, they said they would love to have us race with Dario and go from there. That was really the start of it. At that point I was very, very interested. Of course, one of the things that really helped also was that Dario had raced with Jackie Smith and is team for years. Jackie wrote me a really nice letter, recommending Dario not only as a driver but as a fine person. With that in mind, it really got me interested, and of course you couldn't have a better recommendation, I don't think. That's really how Dario and I got together. Finally we decided we should talk to each other on the telephone. From there, why, here we are.
Q. You mean Jackie Stewart? You said Jackie Smith.
CARL HOGAN: I meant Jackie Stewart. Jackie Smith is a football player. Jackie Smith wouldn't know anything about motor racing, but that's all right (laughter). As far as the tobacco issue, you know, I think it's probably too early to really know how the whole thing is going to fall out. The lobbyists haven't really gotten started. Congress is going to throw their two cents' worth in. I think it's too early. It certainly isn't going to help the sport in any way. Certainly as far as I'm concerned, I'm looking for a major sponsor. If all of a sudden three or four other teams are out there looking for major sponsors also, it's not going to help any. Also the fact that the teams that have tobacco as a major sponsor are all real good, excellent teams. The competition for sponsorship certainly will heat up when that happens. You know, it's tough right now to get sponsors; that's not going to help any for sure. I think it's a little too early for that determination.
Q. Do you have any thoughts also about the series itself? Another racing series? Do you see it sort of the same way?
CARL HOGAN: As far as the tobacco issue?
Q. As far as the money they get there, how easily they can replace it, when they should start looking to replace it.
CARL HOGAN: I think very truthfully we've all been looking to replace it for a year or two now with what happened in Canada, what's happening. I think it will have a big effect on all of racing. I think that NASCAR is probably better equipped to handle it because they seem to have an abundance of sponsorship. They have 31 or 32 race as year on television. That's a lot to sell to a sponsor. We have 17 this year, 19 next year, plus the sponsorship packages in our series, the CART series, are normally a lot more expensive than in NASCAR. It has to affect all of racing as far as I'm concerned, and probably all of sports.
Q. I'm curious how Dario can adapt so quickly to all these brand-new race circuits that he's never raced on before.
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I've had a lot of practice doing that. When I raced the ITC and DTM as it was in 1995, most of the circuits were new. We went there with no prior testing. Some were street tracks, some you couldn't get testing on. So I had to learn to adapt that way. That kind of built up my experience a bit. So far I haven't had a problem learning new circuits, which is kind of lucky in the situation that we're in, being a rookie and everything this year.
Q. You've come up so quickly, so early on in a weekend, getting fast times, doing so well?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: That's the same thing again. You've got to get out there, do your homework before you get there, when you get there, learn the track, walking around, so you're not going to the track totally blind, know where it all goes.
Q. What do you believe have been the key points falling into place? Obviously Dario is one. Do you believe it's personnel? Also you identified the fact that you had some weak points that you were trying to work out as well. What do you think those would be?
CARL HOGAN: Well, I think one of the things that happened, when this happened, I sort of called everyone I knew in racing to look for help. We have gotten tremendous help from anyone. I mean, Reynard has helped in recommending engineers to us, they've helped in securing engineers. Mercedes has been very helpful in that way. We've really relied a lot on our suppliers to help us get started. The first few races were pretty difficult because we really didn't know the car, we didn't know the -- the engineers didn't know each other. It was almost like we had to wear name tags to get through the weekend. That was real frustrating. I think that, you know, we just have so much help from Mercedes and Reynard and from Firestone that I just can't tell you. I mean, it's been super. I think they all recognize the potential of our team and the potential of Dario. They feel it's a real good investment. As far as the weaknesses are concerned, I think it's mostly just experience. I mean, you know, we haven't worked as a team very long, and sometimes our time is consumed in getting the car properly ready, doing things, going from one type of racetrack to another, from an oval to the other. Trying to do all that, I don't think we've really had the time to smooth out some of the rough spots. The pit stops have not been at all up to what we would like. We thought we were coming along really real. St. Louis, had really good pit spots. Milwaukee was fine. We had the malfunction in Detroit. We're all snake bit now. We had a terrible one in Portland. For the next two weeks, we'll be testing at two different venues, doing a lot of work with that. You know, it's not any individual person; it's just coordinating it all, getting it set up right, getting everybody to be relaxed, understanding what their duties are, and perform. I'd say at this point that's one of the weaknesses, and the biggest weakness is not having the sponsor.
Q. Dario, you said in the press conference I think Friday, there was a lot of similarities in Portland to Donnington. I presume you probably looked at the layouts of some of the other tracks. We're going into an airport course. What kind of racing have you done that would be similar to that?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I raced on an airport track in Germany for two years, so that was four races I did, Bremen in Germany. We had some pretty good results there. That's or a tarmac kind of place than concrete like Cleveland is. I think Cleveland is going to be something completely new to me.
Q. And then the following weekend you're going to Toronto, temporary street course. Can you equate that to anything in your experience?
DARIO FRANCHITTI: Not so far. We've done a lot of the street courses, Detroit, all these kinds of places. Hopefully that will put me in a good position there. You have to take every track as a new thing.
Q. Carl, just a quick question. What kind of testing is scheduled for the near future?
CARL HOGAN: Well, next Sunday and Monday, we're going to be testing at Michigan, Firestone test there. We're real pleased with that because that will give Dario his first experience on a super speedway and the new in-fills on the car. We're going to be there two days. I think that's going to be invaluable for Dario and for our team, looking ahead to the US 500, and the race at Fontana. Then the following Monday we'll be testing for sure Monday and maybe Tuesday at road America at Elkhart Lake. That will give Dario a chance to see that one. In the next races coming up, he will have run at Mid Ohio, he'll have run at Michigan, and also at Elkhart Lake. Toronto, no one runs on it in advance there, and Cleveland. Really of the next five races, three of the five that we have been able and could test on, we will have tested. I think we're taking advantage of every opportunity that we can.
Q. Carl, I've got to ask, what's your motivation, especially after winning a championship with Bobby, to borrow TE McHale's phrase, partner in crime. What is the motivation after that to form a whole new team and continue on? You have won the championship. What's the motivation now?
CARL HOGAN: Well, I think it sort of is a variety of things. I don't think I've really tried to put it all together. In looking back, I think part of it is when Bobby and I were partners, I think that everyone thought, you know, I was a good business partner, but Bobby was the technical person. I think in partner with Roger, you know, Roger has a tremendous reputation. I guess maybe part of motivation is for me to do it by myself, maybe to prove to myself also that I can do it as I've done it in the past. I guess that's part of the motivation. I think that's sort of in the background. I think the motivation I have utmost would be we won the championship in '92, and I've been disappointed ever since. Last year I thought we were on the right course with Emerson, he was on the front row of two of the courses, then he got really badly hurt at Michigan, which was very devastating to all of us. I guess it's sort of like unfinished business. I just want to take another whack at it and prove it can and will be done.
Q. You also seem to me very much a people person, concerned about your driver's feelings, concerned about your crew members, et cetera, more so than perhaps some of the owners. Do you feel that way?
CARL HOGAN: Well, I hope so. Part of my motivation is to have -- as I've told everyone, I have three goals in racing. The first one is safety, the second one is to perform in a very professional and dignified manner, and the third is to have fun. You know, I just feel that my joy in racing is to be with the driver and the crew, more so I guess than a lot of people. I don't need a lot of publicity, but I do need to feel close to the team. I just feel I'm part of it and they're part of it. It's just sort of a special feeling that I have and where my interests lie.
Q. Carl, I'd like to ask you with the growing interest now in auto racing across the United States, do you see an end to the impasse between the two leagues, the IRL and CART at any time?
CARL HOGAN: I really don't. I think it's a shame. I really don't because the rules have become so divergent, particularly the engine rules. The engine rules are so far apart. We have four manufacturers, engine manufacturers, in our series that I've been more or less partners with. We really have an allegiance to them, as we do to some other people also. Really and truly, until the rules would ever come together, there's no way that I see this thing getting back together. I think really and truly, it's just going to take some time to decide whether each party can get on with life, and there's room for two of them, maybe in different areas, finally develop that that can happen and it's best to be together. We feel it would be best to be together because we would have the best of both worlds. That's important primarily really with the sponsors because of the package you can give them. By giving them two separate packages, it really dilutes both of them. I think from that standpoint, it's very important. As far as the racing is concerned, I'm very happy with where we race and how we race. That doesn't bother me. It does bother me as far as the public is confused as to who is who, what is what. I think that's really hurting us with the fans.
DARIO FRANCHITTI: I'm going to have to go, because the battery in my cell phone is going.
T.E. McHALE: Dario, thank you for joining us today. Carl, can you take another question or two?
CARL HOGAN: Sure.
Q. I have a question here relative to the package. You are one of the four teams that run on a Reynard Mercedes Firestone package. To that point, all four cars have been in contention just about every week. Did it have anything to do with Greg Moore doing well last year, because he was the only one last year with that same package?
CARL HOGAN: I think as far as I'm concerned I felt last year that the Reynard was the best chances out there. I ran a Penske. Our car was very good on short ovals and things like that, but left something to be desired on some of the road courses. Seemed like the best overall car was the Reynard. Having to have a choice, that was rather easy. As far as the engine, I've been with Ilmor since 1992, except for the year with Honda. I've had a very close relationship with them all along and with Mercedes. I also had seen, having run the Mercedes last year, the improvements from the beginning of the year to the end. In the beginning of the year, I felt Honda was way out in front. Towards the end, I felt we were certainly comparable. I saw that progression. I was very pleased with that. That was an easy choice. Probably a difficult choice was the tire choice because I'd been with Goodyear all my life, never been with Firestone. Very truthfully, at the end of the year, Firestone pursued me and Goodyear I never heard from. It was pretty obvious that Firestone had a very competitive tire last year. I felt that that might be the ingredient that would really put the thing together. I've been very pleased with that so far. That's really the way I arrived at my decision.
Q. You were fortunate to be on a Goodyear last year when they ran at Detroit, and here you were on Firestones, you've been very lucky. Did you ever think that a Firestone tire would make such progress in terms of running in wet conditions?
CARL HOGAN: Not really truthfully. Detroit last year I think Goodyears were probably five seconds a lap faster than the Firestones, and it was dramatic. Very truthfully at Portland, we were worried. We actually went around the various drivers, including Scott Pruett, and said, "What do you think the Firestone wet tire?" All of us were in the dark because we didn't have experience with it. Truthfully, we were pleasantly surprised. In fact, we've written Firestone a letter complimenting them on the progress on the rain tire because it is dramatic. On that one, I think we were lucky.
HAL WHITEFORD: I'm with Mercedes-Benz of North America. I want to say hi to Carl, say how proud Mercedes-Benz is to be with you and Dario. I don't think you should be so hard on yourself. I think you guys for your first year together have already made remarkable progress, we look forward to you continuing, Carl.
CARL HOGAN: Hal, you know how I feel about you. I'll tell the rest of the world, you're one of my favorite people. You always supported me when I'm up and when I'm down. I appreciate those comments. I just feel that we have such a tremendous package and we have Dario, I just am not a patient person when it comes to having the right package and circumstances. I think I've got to take advantage of them. I appreciate your comments. Until we're in the Winner's Circle, I'm not going to relax.
HAL WHITEFORD: Tell Dario if he gets the to Winner's Circle this year, he can keep that little toy that he's driving from me right now.
CARL HOGAN: I'm going to call him as soon as we get off the phone.
T.E. McHALE: We'll take one last question before we let Carl go.
Q. What were some key things you guys learned this past weekend driving in the wet and things you could perhaps translate into the rest of this season?
CARL HOGAN: Well, that's a hard one because, to you the truth, I can't believe that the race went as well as it did under the circumstances. I know Dario told me there were 12 or 15 times during the race it was like someone put a blindfold in front of him; he couldn't see. I know Raul Boesel told me the same thing. We decided now maybe we should put blindfolds on the driver for the first lap. I don't know really if we learned anything about what we could do better, under the wet conditions. They were really something else at Portland. It started to dry out, then it didn't. That's always really a tough call as far as managing the race. I have to say that all in all, I think the drivers really performed admirably. There have been some races this year that I really questioned the drivers' intelligence. This is one race where I thought everybody really used their heads. It was really necessary. If I have learned anything, I guess it's just the standpoint that the drivers can really make a difference with the safety during a race, if they just use their heads. It was something else because when the drivers were bunched up, it was really pretty difficult. I know I've heard some of the drivers say when they called that one caution midway through the race to get water off the track, they questioned that call because it bunched everybody up again for the start which made it very dangerous. All in all, it was an unbelievable performance. I think for the fans, it was a heck of a race.
T.E. McHALE: With that we'll wrap up for today. We certainly want to thank Carl Hogan and Dario Franchitti for joining us this afternoon. Appreciate you all taking the time to join us as well. Thanks to all of you, have a good day.
CARL HOGAN: Thank you.
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